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morgandawn(Updated Oct 25, 2019)
Starting Oct 28, 2019 no new files (photos, documents, etc) will be allowed to be uploaded. Starting Dec 14, 2019, Yahoo Groups will be limited to emails only - functions like digest will be eliminated and all files and photos will be deleted. Admins will have limited tools and all groups will be invite only. And archives of existing messages will not longer be accessible.
What To Do?
I have a step by step guide here. The short version
1. Admins - back up your Groups and decide whether and where to move
2. Members - back up your Groups - don't leave this to the admins.
3. Everyone - consider documenting Yahoo Groups on Fanlore, help spread the word
The OTW has made an announcement. Their Open Doors preservation program is open to providing storage of Yahoo Groups backups that are assembled by moderators and non-moderators alike. Details here.
Fans are gathering on a Discord Channel to chat and ask for and give help: https://discord.gg/ek2xFyJ (updated invite)
Please follow the Yahoo Group Rescue Tumblr for updates
Starting Oct 28, 2019 no new files (photos, documents, etc) will be allowed to be uploaded. Starting Dec 14, 2019, Yahoo Groups will be limited to emails only - functions like digest will be eliminated and all files and photos will be deleted. Admins will have limited tools and all groups will be invite only. And archives of existing messages will not longer be accessible.
What To Do?
I have a step by step guide here. The short version
1. Admins - back up your Groups and decide whether and where to move
2. Members - back up your Groups - don't leave this to the admins.
3. Everyone - consider documenting Yahoo Groups on Fanlore, help spread the word
The OTW has made an announcement. Their Open Doors preservation program is open to providing storage of Yahoo Groups backups that are assembled by moderators and non-moderators alike. Details here.
Fans are gathering on a Discord Channel to chat and ask for and give help: https://discord.gg/ek2xFyJ (updated invite)
Please follow the Yahoo Group Rescue Tumblr for updates
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 07:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 07:57 pm (UTC)Either way, I'll be downloading the messages of the groups I moderate, so thanks much for the links. But do you have any additional thoughts on their garbled announcement?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 08:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 09:00 pm (UTC)Thanks! But there's a distinction between files and messages in Yahoo Groups, if I recall correctly?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 04:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 05:04 am (UTC)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FC0cKXyKx01VkNYPrNpUwKla0SqaBboULnQJprsuCaE/edit?usp=sharing
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 09:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 07:50 am (UTC)Not yet, I'm afraid. Exterminators are due today.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 09:02 pm (UTC)Whoops, sorry, I missed seeing your edited reply. Yes, it's all very confusing. I expect they'll be barraged with "Wha?" questions.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-16 11:24 pm (UTC)http://personalgroupware.com/smf/index.php?topic=1304.0
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 10:24 pm (UTC)Thank you for your post to BIC, which I moderate. :) I belong to a bunch of other groups from the early 00s; I'll see whether anyone - such as you! - has posted an announcement; if not, I'll post mine. And I'll try to preserve what groups aren't already being preserved.
It's wonderful having you as a guide to all this.
Date change?
Date: 2019-10-17 08:39 am (UTC)Also, if you can still log in to the associated Yahoo! account, it looks like you can use the Verizon Privacy Dashboard to download archived data from your Groups. This is per my Wired email newsletter this morning.
Re: Date change?
Date: 2019-10-17 03:24 pm (UTC)Problem accessing /. Reason:
Not Found"
Re: Date change?
Date: 2019-10-17 04:23 pm (UTC)Re: Date change?
Date: 2019-10-17 04:36 pm (UTC)https://api.login.yahoo.com/
are you a Verizon customer
Re: Date change?
Date: 2019-10-17 10:17 pm (UTC)I get taken to: https://login.yahoo.com/account/challenge/recaptcha (that's an approximation of the link, it's session-specific so it won't work a second time) and then after doing the Captcha, got taken to: https://yahoo.mydashboard.oath.com/lite
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-17 01:57 pm (UTC)I tried to write it up once, but the sketch I was able to put together (it's linked from the Sock Puppet entry on Fanlore) was emotionally exhausting, and I never produced a final version. Now, if anyone wanted to pick up the job, the primary sources will be much more difficult to access. Dammit.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-17 03:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 05:05 am (UTC)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FC0cKXyKx01VkNYPrNpUwKla0SqaBboULnQJprsuCaE/edit?usp=sharing
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 10:44 pm (UTC)Thank you so much for finding and disseminating the program throughout fandom. I'm sure a LOT of important history is being saved as a result. ♥
I watched the video and found the program super easy to use, so I haven't referred back to the instructions much yet. I was glad they were there, though!
I will probably use the instructions to export the messages, if I need help.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 12:53 am (UTC)So it sounds like 1) we absolutely have the software creator's blessing to use the software free for this purpose (yay!), and 2) if I understand correctly, the software will still be usable when the 14-day trial period has elapsed, it's just that you can't download anything else from Yahoo! after that point.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 03:08 pm (UTC)http://personalgroupware.com/smf/index.php?topic=1316.0
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 11:41 pm (UTC)In the meantime, I've discovered another limitation of the free version: it will only export 1000 messages, max, in the nice-looking human-readable html format.
But also, I've discovered that the format the data is saved in, .db3, is not actually proprietary, and there are other (freeware) readers that can open it.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 12:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 12:46 am (UTC)and successfully used it to open the .db3 file that PG Offline had created out of my downloaded Yahoo group. The interface was pretty confusing, but I was able to see the list of messages and open them.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 12:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 02:06 am (UTC)As an example, if I click on the contents of a message I sent on 2001-07-14 19:20:21 (message #251 in the listing; I can see the message #, the subject, and the contents of the message), I get a text box with:
(Actually it includes html formatting, which I can't show you verbatim because Dreamwidth is going to render it.)
I might not be describing it very well; I only understand maybe 25% of what I'm doing here, though I'm certainly in the process of trying to educate myself!
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 04:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 04:35 am (UTC)Since I don't really understand what I'm doing here, I might not be telling you all the important things, but if you ask me any more questions about it I'll do my best to answer!
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 04:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:11 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:14 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:45 am (UTC)You can also export all of the messages as one big text file by choosing the "pipe delimited html" option; that works without any limits in the free trial version. If you change the filename extension to .html instead of .txt afterwards, you can open it in a browser like Chrome or Firefox or whatever. It's a bit ugly, but easily human-readable. (Note: I'm speaking only from my own experience of doing it with the ~2500 messages from my one group.)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:29 am (UTC)EDIT: Replied to the wrong person, sorry!
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:49 am (UTC)I don't know about exporting messages to HTML with SQLiteStudio; I have not tried. The only thing I've done so far is discover that I can essentially grab the messages one-by-one by hand in HTML format (by opening them up one-by-one in the database and copy-pasting the text).
I should mention that I really don't know anything about SQLiteStudio, or SQL in general.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 04:19 am (UTC)I went to Tools->Export.
When it asks "What do you want to export?" I selected "A single table." Hit next.
Then I selected the correct database (the group I wanted to export, the .db3 file for which needed to have been previously opened in SQLiteStudio), and selected the table "group_message" from the drop-down box.
I kept all of the default ticky-boxes ticked under "options" in this window, and hit "next".
That brought me to the "Export File and Options" window.
Export format: HTML
Output: file (select your desired location to save it)
Export format options: I ticked all the boxes, including "Don't escape HTML characters" (which was not ticked by default).
Maximum number of characters per cell: change it to something ridiculously high so that long fic posts won't get cut off. I set it to 10000000.
Output format: Format document (new lines, indentation)
Click finish.
This resulted, as I said, in one giant and very readable giant HTML document with every single message ever sent to the group. (It's actually in a grid, with the date and subject line in cells next to the message contents.) The one with my group's 2500 messages is 14,781KB in size.
Whether there's a way to select only certain messages to output in the file is something I do not yet know. (But of course you could always open up the HTML file in an editor and start chopping bits out.)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 04:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 04:57 am (UTC)*headdesk* I just realized… it would've been smarter for me to create a new db3 for each group. I've got multiple groups saved into the same db3 file. Is it still possible to separate those out or will it smush all of those into a single export? (I will totally separate them from now on!)
And I do know a bit of SQL now since I taught myself (with copious amounts of help from kind souls on the OpenOffice forum) how to create a database this summer. I'm still not super experienced in creating queries and whatnot, but those tables can be easily matched up that way. You do a SELECT and grab the name column from the person table along with the data from the table of the messages, and you have to add a line that goes WHERE "person"."personID" = "messages"."personID" essentially (I don't know what the actual table info is there so I just made up names so it's clear what's going on). But I did all my SQL queries with a LibreOffice Base files, so this might be a bit different, we'll see.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 05:06 am (UTC)Since I've only downloaded the one group, I can't really say. When I was doing the export it looked as though, if I had more than one database, I could choose to select only one of them. What I don't know is whether the program would generate (read? differentiate?) multiple databases from one .db3 file if you'd downloaded multiple groups.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-22 10:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:58 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:03 am (UTC)Would it be helpful possibly if I sent you a screenshot of what mine looks like with the database open? Is there a way for me to do that? (Email, maybe?)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 06:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 09:19 am (UTC)As I read this, I expect that the email archives will be deleted along with the rest of the non-email content come December.
The whole point of this exercise seems to be to get Yahoo *out* of anything to do with hosting user-created material on its servers -- not that surprising right now, with Facebook in trouble for mismanaging data and both the FCC and Congress in a mood to impose new regulations on social media. In that context, pure mailing lists probably look a H*ll of a lot safer from a liability standpoint than hosted content archives, if you're lawyering for a social media site.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 12:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-18 11:55 pm (UTC)https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SGAHC/conversations/messages/62394
ChrystallineOct 17 8:19 PM
So Yahoo Groups is shutting down "user created content" and specifying that email functionality will remain, but most folks I see are assuming this is just the beginning of the end and making plans to migrate.
Is everything on-list on other sites like Wraithbait, FFN, AO3? Could we get everyone to post their links?
Maybe we could see if the group could be a subgroup on AO3, like many other single-fandom archives have done:
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Open_Doors/collections
The one story I posted on list is on both FFN and AO3, and I'd be fine with having it added to a SGAHC-collection there.
I like the convenience of being able to download it into my Calibre database and mark favorites in my public bookmarks for others to hopefully discover and read:
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Chrystalline/bookmarks
If you haven't heard of Calibre and FanFicFare, you've been missing out:
http://www.calibre-ebook.com
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259221
Also, just FYI, I've looked into downloading the group messages. The only option I've found is a Chrome addon that only works with older versions of Chrome. The current version available from Google does not work with this. Gave me fits. Also annoying is that it insists on updating without my say-so. Just found an article explaining how to stop the updates but haven't tried it yet:
https://www.maketecheasier.com/disable-automatic-chrome-updates-windows/
The discussion that led me to the addon is here:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/yahoogroup_message_archive/146709?p=,,,20,0,0,0
The addon and instructions for use are here:
http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/w/page/93006447/Chrome%20Application%20To%20Download%20Messages
The only place I found older versions of Chrome for Windows (I went with the oldest) is here:
https://www.slimjet.com/chrome/google-chrome-old-version.php
Other OS options found here:
https://techjourney.net/how-to-download-install-previous-old-version-of-google-chrome/
I've only tried with the FuRenR list so far, because it's the only list I'm in that has fewer than tens of thousands of messages. Out of 373 messages on the list, I only got 333 the first time. I assumed (mistakenly) that it just did 1-333, so I then downloaded 334-373, and ended up with overlap. I'm not sure which 40 messages it skipped, so I'll have to experiment with it to see how many messages I can get at a time without losing some. I don't know how long that will take me (and I have three more lists with tens of thousands of messages, so this could take a while) but if someone else figures out the trick (with lists you're in, obviously), please let me know.
Other groups are discussing where to move or just let the groups go. As quiet as it's been, I could see letting it go, but if the listowner(s) decided to go to GoogleGroups or Groups.io (upside: easy import from Yahoo; downside: get big enough it costs money), I would sign up to follow. Heard someone mention mobilize.io, which looks possible. Someone else had mentioned Slack, but that looks too business-oriented for this; I'm a big fan of free.
Also, by all means, feel free to forward most of this to other groups if you think it applies.
Chrystalline
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Chrystalline/profile
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/355414/Chrystalline
http://cdlauryl.deviantart.com/
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 01:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 02:00 am (UTC)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oRB7yF-QKqUEd76-dKxPh7ajlka4c7--EMnUIZDudrU/edit?usp=sharing
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 06:03 pm (UTC)When I did this the first time with the old version of Chrome, I just used Save. I saved a copy first to be safe, and then manually changed the file extension to MBOX. This can then be imported to Thunderbird using the ImportExportTools NG addon. The imported MBOX shows up as a folder with the same name as the MBOX file, including the extension. The email messages have the timestamps and subject lines as normal, but sender email addresses are truncated. I still haven't figured out which 40 messages are missing from the download, though.
I also found a link that's supposed to be Yahoo providing download of Groups data. I've put in a request, will let y'all know what I end up getting:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/getmydata
The Yahoo help page that describes the privacy dash is here:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/download-data-privacy-dashboard-sln28671.html
The actual privacy dashboard for all Verizon properties is here:
https://verizonmedia.com/policies/us/en/verizonmedia/privacy/dashboard/index.html
Surprised me; I hadn't noticed when AOL became Verizon.
I don't know how long it will take for Yahoo to let me know that my data is ready for download, but I will certainly report back with what it gets me. I know when I did something similar with Apple it took several days, so I'm trying to be patient.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 06:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 07:44 pm (UTC)You can add FuRenR to the completely downloaded groups, then, barring the deleted messages. I don't know if anyone still has those.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 10:04 pm (UTC)"You can add FuRenR to the completely downloaded groups, then, barring the deleted messages. I don't know if anyone still has those."
M.D. not logged in
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 10:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 10:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 01:25 am (UTC)I also collated the best I could find for alternatives, but I made it my own post to try not to bombard you again over here:
https://chrystalline.dreamwidth.org/728.html
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 01:32 am (UTC)1. Add in big bold letters - Adult Content not permitted on Groups.io (or Google Groups). Don't want people shelling out $110 only to be kicked off later
2. Suggest Dreamwidth as an adult content/fan friendly alternative. it allows explicit material, is free, threaded conversations, privacy locks and more. Image uploading is limited to 500MB free accounts and 1.5GB paid accounts
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 01:42 am (UTC)Chrome Extension
Date: 2019-10-23 05:07 pm (UTC)Just a lurker, just wanted to point out that the extension also works on Windows if you tweak it. You have to repackage it into a crx file using the YahooApplication folder. Once somebody creates a crx file it can easily be shared. It's not a large file.
Re: Chrome Extension
Date: 2019-10-27 11:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-11-04 04:27 am (UTC)The messages are in numbered MBOX files. On the upside, they import to Thunderbird just as readily as the Chrome addon results. On the downside, each MBOX file has several dozen messages that are missing information. Sometimes date/time/sender/subject - those tend to have a single word as the sender and no subject and timestamped when I opened the imported folder. Looks like MadLibs in the Sender list. Sometimes the body of the message is blank. They're kind of a mess. I don't know how much of that is the import into Thunderbird, and how much is defect in the MBOX file, though I didn't see this kind of mess from the MBOX generated by the Chrome addon.
The Photos section is missing altogether. Apparently Yahoo is having Issues with the Photos section, and is unlikely to fix it since they're planning to purge it anyway. Import to Groups.io may not get the Photos section because of Yahoo's unfixed Issues.
The images that were in the Files section are there, but may or may not have their file extension. Some of them have the extension as part of the file name and are just missing the dot that makes it an extension. This goes for other files in the files section, as well. Files need to be checked against the archive to make sure they get their correct extensions so they're still usable.
Upshot is, for accurate archiving, the manual download of files and the Chrome addon or PGOffline are necessary. They can be uploaded to filesharing options like Dropbox or GoogleDrive or Microsoft OneDrive etc, or hosted at ISPs. Squidge.org has the advantage of being a listserver, so we could start over, and it provides filehosting and website hosting, so we could upload the old archives in addition to having the new archives, all in the same place. Of all the options I've found, this looks like the best to me.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 02:23 am (UTC)For an example of my extreme pickiness about organization, I ended up creating a database this summer just so I could find the fics I wanted to find, and make lists fitting specific criteria easily. One of my friends just laughed when I told her and said "that is so something you would do", lol.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 03:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 04:19 am (UTC)I've finished with RRyaoi and am going on to YYH now.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 04:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 01:36 pm (UTC)I am not going to keep the group active, but I do want the emails etc accessible. Let me know what I can do, if you have the time or anyone else does.
I'll read through this post in detail later today. I also just created an account at Fanlore, and will look at that too.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 02:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 07:55 pm (UTC)Where would you like me to email you? Thank you again for your help with this, it's much appreciated.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-19 10:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 08:27 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 08:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 11:12 pm (UTC)It will then be up to fandom to start pushing out the message
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 12:17 am (UTC)(The trouble is that I never joined them back when they were active because I didn't get into the fandoms until years after their heyday - my perennial problem, lol.)
Edit: (upon re-reading) That is, to say, yeah, I would totally go for a spreadsheet of "these groups need saving! Check to see if you're a member of one of them!" and then ask people to share that link everywhere (and have it link to your guide so they can click on, say at the top of the sheet, something like "How do I save this group? Click here to read more")
I could already add about eight groups that haven't approved me yet, but that was just from today, it may be that someone will see their email tomorrow morning and approve me to access. I've backed up over two dozen groups at least now… Anything in my fandoms that had fic (and sometimes serious discussion if I think it might be worth it) that isn't on the list already.
I can get people to post a link on the Yuletide Discord about it, if they haven't already (I'm not on Discord because I can't stand the emojis and they won't make it possible for one to individually control one's ability to see them). If so, what link should I share - this post?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 09:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 10:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 11:03 pm (UTC)https://tinyurl.com/yyncxewj
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 02:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 11:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-20 11:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 02:46 am (UTC)Fan Email Lists.
It's a site put together by alice ttlg, listing all the known fandom e-mail lists in the early 00s. This Internet Archive cache shows the site as of December 11, 2003. (To find the lists of Yahoo Groups, skip down to Yahoogroups.) The site lists 1,080 fandom groups at Yahoo Groups. (Edited to add: The Yahoogroups listings appear to have left out the multifandom groups at Yahoo Groups - those are a few hundred more groups.) In each case, the site includes the list URL, associated website, fandom, genre/type, and description.
After that point in Internet Archive's cache record, the site switched to an "Advanced Search" system for the full list, which no longer works, but you can still see later e-mail lists by clicking on "Last 30 Days: Any Genre."
Not all of the lists still exist, of course.
I made intensive use of this site in the early 00s, and my recollection is that it rarely missed noting a fandom list. (Alice is still around, by the way. You can find her contact information here, under "Contact the Populli Webmaster.")
I just went through the list of twenty fandom groups that I still belong to. Of those twenty, only one (Master & Apprentice) has anyone posting about the shutdown. I sent posts to the other nineteen, but I'm deeply concerned that the archives of major lists will be lost. For example, nothing had been posted (till I posted) at two of the largest multifandom slash lists: Allslash (614 members) and RareSlash (1294 members). Heaven only knows what other major lists are out there, not to mention quirky little lists that should be preserved.
What I'm thinking is that we (by which I mean, a group of sizeable volunteers) could go about this in a systematic manner, contacting all of the moderators of fandom lists, since their Yahoo Groups emails are on the list pages. Then we could make an attempt to save any lists whose mods weren't responding, but whose lists seemed worth saving.
Is this idea worth pursuing, do you think? Or is OTW already doing this? :)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:40 am (UTC)SORTED BY LIST SERVICE
(sorted by fandom within each service)
Yahoogroups
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N
O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z 0-9
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:09 am (UTC)That's the category I was looking at too, but it appears (at a quick glance) to have left out the multifandom lists at Yahoo Groups. The multifandom lists at all services are listed toward the top of the page. So together, those two categories should theoretically cover all the Yahoo Groups.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:09 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:10 am (UTC)Ah - thanks for catching that.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:17 am (UTC)No, there's also a Yahoo Groups email address that sends emails directly to whoever owns the list. Clickable versions are on each Group home page (near the subscribe email address), or you can just add the list name, like this: [listname]-owner@yahoogroups.com
Here's what it looks like on one of my lists:
hierarchicalfic-owner@yahoogroups.com
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:09 am (UTC)I am indeed. Where do I go?
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 03:35 am (UTC)https://www.squidge.org/Squidge.org/About_Squidge.org.html
You can see its lists here:
https://lists.squidge.org/wws
https://lists.squidge.org/wws/lists
https://fanlore.org/wiki/List_of_Squidge.org_Mailing_Lists
And they're at Dreamwidth:
https://squidgestatus.dreamwidth.org
I haven't used Squidge.org recently, but I did have a list there briefly in the 00s, and it worked fine then.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 03:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 04:09 am (UTC)Grateful though I am to all the hard work you're doing, I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass, because my hypomania gets triggered whenever I edit other people. You really don't want to be on the receiving end of my grandiosity symptom. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-22 05:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-22 09:08 pm (UTC)I hope it works out well for you. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-22 10:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 03:16 pm (UTC)Some of the groups I have been backing up are marked restricted and requiring mod approval to join. However, as soon as I *apply* to join, I'm able to view the messages (though not files/photos), and that is still true even if I'm denied membership. Should I mark this group public or private? None of the options seem to properly fit…
For the question "Have Moderators Announced An Archive/Transfer Plan?" what do I do if they're talking about it and haven't decided yet? I've been putting "no" because it's not a "yes" yet, but that requires me going back to deal with it; it's definitely not the same "no" as in "there's been no activity for five years and who knows if the mods are even alive anymore". I almost want a "It's Under Discussion" button to select, lol.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 05:18 pm (UTC)And adding a Under Discussion button is a great suggestion
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-21 08:56 pm (UTC):thumbs-up: I'll be sure to edit my responses appropriate for the groups where that's happening, then, once you've got that implemented. At least that'll indicate that those groups are aware of the situation and may want the archives to go somewhere. (I'm going to be storing my backups in a private Mega.nz folder and giving direct links to whichever moderators request them. Though if they want the db3s I'll have to figure out how to remove my password from the file first.)
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-21 10:30 pm (UTC)Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 04:29 pm (UTC)https://discord.kolob/qbMJJp
Here is a link that explains my way of saving:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsATN7wocVi4UG1d4g?e=ulpaWt
The json are not very readable in their current form. To do so, I've been using a text editor (Textpad) with regular expression support and replacing "summary" in the files with \n"summary" to make new lines where the messages start.
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 09:32 pm (UTC)Here is an updated version:
There is an API provided here. There's also a list of Groups-scraping software on the page:
https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Yahoo!_Groups
https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/concatenative/messages/1/raw
If you use this API, it tells you how many posts are in the community after "totalRecords":
https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/concatenative/messages?count=1
From the Archiveteam, this is a list of the names of many public Yahoo Groups. But not anywhere near all of them:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsAD1rdmzrGDuiIE6g?e=tYQNcF
From the Archiveteam, this is a list of the metadata of many public Yahoo Groups. But not anywhere near all of them (14GB file):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsAExsAo15VXYELjUw?e=WJtEoa
Here are some good lists of fandom Yahoo Groups though many on them are deleted now:
http://paula3001.bravepages.com/IRFTIA-mailinglists.html
There should be multiple back-ups of the important communities, so I don't want to stop any of you but I'm in process saving 638 Tolkien-related groups using Autoit's Inetget.
https://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/docs/functions/InetGet.htm
https://1drv.ms/t/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsAKwAXENEIQW3D6BQ?e=jDGubc
But this is a list of groups I am locked out of. I have applied to join them but have gotten no response because they are possibly abandoned:
https://1drv.ms/t/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsAFyubXjC6n_Ux1-Q?e=4plgbh
Any info on any moderator of any group on that list would be good. We should try to spread a list of locked groups around Tumblr with a project name like Unlocking Yahoo or something to try to reach moderators who have abandoned their groups. Or at least members of these groups who could save things on our behalf. Do you think the OTW would post it to give it some traction?
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 05:08 am (UTC)EDIT: I've also thought we need a list of locked groups - and not just of Tolkien, too. I've run into 10 so far that I can't get into and very much would like to, and they range from some Tolkien (though not on your lists anywhere!) to Pretender to L&O:SVU to Smallville to multifannish, for instance. Currently I have them open as tabs because I need to find a place to put them where they can be promoted. Perhaps a Google Form feeding into a spreadsheet as well? (And within the spreadsheet a link to "if you're a member, here's what you need to do!") I don't have the skills or time to create that, nor the social media accounts to spread it on, but if someone does create it, I'll put it out in the few places I can, and add the groups I know need backing up.
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 05:47 am (UTC)It will be up to fans to find people who are members of the Group. You can also try sending a message to the list owner by NAMEOFGROUP-owner@yahoogroups.com - it is the same email that is used when you subscribe but maybe a different subject line?
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 06:07 am (UTC)I assumed that they got an email at that address already when I applied, but it can't hurt. I've written up a nice template to use in emailing, and hope it will help with some. I've had at least two or three groups approve my membership (and one denied, but I could read the messages just by applying, so was able to back it up anyway), but the majority have been silent. Fingers crossed that this will elicit a few positive responses!
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 06:27 am (UTC)I think I am getting around 20-30% response rate for the 'requires mod approval to join'
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 06:42 am (UTC)Hi, I'm Doranwen, and I'm one of the many volunteers who are attempting to make backups of Yahoo Groups before all of the data disappears thanks to Yahoo's recent decision to scale back Yahoo Groups to mailing lists only. I have applied to join your group ****** in an effort to preserve this data. Let me explain what I will do, if you'll approve my membership:
- I will use a software program to download all of the files and photos for safekeeping.
- I will use the same software program to crawl all of the messages and save them to a database format (db3).
- I will export the messages to a single HTML file. (Future export possibilities include a nicer formatted HTML, as well as a couple SQL types.)
- I will upload these to a *private* Mega.nz folder, and provide you with the link to your group's messages and other files. I will also send a copy to the Open Doors project for preservation. They are committed to preserving the data, but will not share it publicly unless given permission by group moderators (indeed, at this time they have no framework in place for sharing it at all, but simply wish to preserve while we still have the opportunity to do so). You can see more information about these efforts here: https://archiveofourown.org/admin_posts/14117
Thank you for considering this request.
Doranwen
I've tweaked a few things along the way (just edited now to improve - I'm terrible at email, I always say more than I need to and have to keep paring down to the essentials), and I'm sure a few more things could be tweaked to improve it (for instance, maybe I don't need to mention the possibility of the nicer-formatted HTML files as I don't know if I can scrounge up $25 anyway - I literally don't even have that much extra this month, period, and it's hard to justify for that one simple purpose, as useful as it will be). But that's the gist of it.
I linked them to the post on AO3 because it's the most thorough explanation of the situation (and it links here anyway). And others may have a different method of sharing the files, but I think a Mega folder is probably the best option, at least for me. It's secure (I can provide only the link to their data and not the entire folder - and no one else can access anyone else's with it), permanent (no 30-day expiration after the last download or something similar), and will hold a whole lot of data.
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 04:11 pm (UTC)Here is a Discord invite to the Save Yahoo Groups Server:
https://discord.gg/qbMJJp
Here is a link that explains my way of saving:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AttWx8rXBtV-gsATN7wocVi4UG1d4g?e=ulpaWt
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 08:46 pm (UTC)I can't handle Discord, because the emojis bother me a LOT. I find them extremely irritating to the eye and sometimes even confusing. (There's one on Slack, for instance, that's supposed to be "confused" - it doesn't look remotely confused to me. If I went off the visual, I'd use it for "sympathy"!) So I turn off emojis on Slack and I loved using IRC when the Yuletide channel was active there. Discord, sadly, refuses to even consider allowing users to individually control their viewing of emojis whatsoever, and when I tried suggesting it on their forum I had dozens of people downvoting it (apparently people get very angry when you want to NOT see their emojis :P so frustrating). Discord is clearly not neurodivergent-friendly (as I'm pretty sure my Asperger's has something to do with my strong dislike of emojis), and I wish there was a way to change that, but no one's listened to me there! So I don't use it at all.
I run Linux on my usual system and fired up a Windows 7 box I rarely use just for this purpose. Perhaps ironically, I actually don't know scripting; I can do some cli stuff but prefer a gui whenever possible, hence using PG Offline. (I do know a little SQL though, so I'm hopeful that I'll be able to figure out how to export stuff using SQLiteStudio even if I can't afford the cost of the registration for PG Offline).
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 09:45 pm (UTC)I understand about Discord. I like emojis. Though not so much that I want to see them EVERYWHERE. I've liked them less since they've become commercialized.
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 10:13 pm (UTC)For instance, do we just link them to the OTW post? Or should we have something like this:
- If you want to preserve the data yourself, go here: *link to instructions on software to do that*
- If you'd like someone else to preserve the data for you, go here: *link to... something?* (don't currently have anywhere to say "go here and ask for someone to join your group so they can back things up, but it's more likely that they've got multiple people asking for membership to do just that - and if they're touchy about the data getting all over the 'net, how do they know that the individual person is going to be honest about it? I mean, if I tell them "I will not post it publicly", I mean it - I never lie about what I will or won't do - but others may not be as honest)
Also, I'd think they ought to be linked to the list of "we need these groups backed up" - and if that is the case, should the message go out to all members of locked groups instead? Because as long as someone's a member, they can do the backup, even if they can't get mod permission to share it.
And should they be linked to the list of already-archived groups? So many questions I have. If I get some answers to those, I can work on crafting a simple, straightforward message. (Which I can do if I work at it, lol, I just have to fight my temptation to over-explain and over-share.)
The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-23 04:00 pm (UTC)https://yahoo-geddon.tumblr.com/post/188528746979/yahoo-groups-will-be-shutting-down-what-each-of
Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 03:35 pm (UTC)Re: The Great Purge
Date: 2019-10-22 08:36 pm (UTC)The first is particularly large, tons of messages - but you can't see them unless approved as a member, alas! (Some say you need approval but as soon as you apply you can read the messages, so while I can't get files/photos from them, the messages at least can be backed up.)
I'm still working my way through every LOTR one I can find, and then I'll probably turn to X-Men. I've already gone through all the Pretender ones and all those for smaller fandoms that I could think of.
A helpful tool
Date: 2019-10-21 11:26 pm (UTC)What I had to do was set up a new Yahoo account, link that same ID, and then run this tool to make it all sync up:
https://joshuatj.com/2018/07/18/your-email-address-is-not-linked-to-a-yahoo-id-yahoo-groups/
And it let me back to the old mailing lists I was subbed to 15 years ago.
Re: A helpful tool
Date: 2019-10-21 11:44 pm (UTC)Re: A helpful tool
Date: 2019-10-22 12:35 am (UTC)I download all the files and photos making certain my virus filters are running.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 05:04 am (UTC)- locked (and very few of those have allowed viewing of the archive upon applying - I'm not sure how the ones that did, did)
- nothing but spam (it's not worth it to me to set it all up to download just 15 posts of teens going "come join my group!" and then stop because the rest is spammage)
- only for certain types of content that I'm not into
- fandoms I'm not into (I'm happy if someone else backs them up, they just have to be interesting to me for me to put the effort into doing it myself).
I've added all the ones I can't get into (that haven't outright denied my application to join, as a couple have) to the spreadsheet as suggestions (and am delighted to see that one's already been claimed and backed up).
I've tried every combination of words for the following fandoms (I'm now resorting to slowly browsing through long lists in various categories in hopes of finding promising ones): Tolkien, Pretender, X-Men Movies, Smallville, Narnia, Dr. Quinn, Lois & Clark, Women's Murder Club… I even ran across a Black Sash group, which is so obscure it doesn't even exist on AO3, and I'm planning on requesting it this year for Yuletide!
Any suggestions for how to find more fandoms to back up, without spending hours (that I don't really have) browsing through the directory of groups in an attempt to find good ones? As long as it's a fandom I'm remotely into (anything in my interest list on the profile) I'll happily turn my computer loose on it.
EDIT: I forgot Narnia…
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 05:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 06:05 am (UTC)I'm slowly poking through the lists of groups under All / Entertainment & Arts / Humanities / Books and Writing / Fan Fiction - found one or two potentials so far.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 06:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 06:16 am (UTC)Anyway, earlier I stumbled across a fanfic resource group for medical details and decided I'd hop on and snag all of that (useful stuff), and there was a LOT (they were smart enough to require approval of messages from new members, so no spam to worry about); it's still plowing through that one and will probably do so for another few hours, by which time I'll be asleep.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-24 07:00 am (UTC)Thank you for organizing this post...
Date: 2019-10-25 09:56 pm (UTC)And then it turns out I'm in an area of California impacted by the "Public Safety Power Shutoff"(PSPS), eyeroll. Ah well, I'll get back to this after the latest fire problems pass.
But thank you, Dawn, for organizing this page... And everyone whom is here helping.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-10-27 11:13 pm (UTC)